0:13 Hey, it's time to crank up the truth. I'm Val Selby. And over the decades of working online, I've learned a most important lesson: mindset owns your business. If procastination, impostor syndrome and a lack of focus have been blocking your biz, and I'm here with Val Full Volume, ready to help you see choices that you're making, get ready to own your personality, and use your expertise to create the business of your dreams. Now is the time to make changes and live your best life. So let's get to it! Hello, hello! I'm so glad that you are here to listen to me yap at you for another week. And I've got a friend, Jennifer 0:59 we had to pause our conversation because we're both a little ranty. So I know you guys save your podcast. Yeah. I love I know y'all love when I get ranty. So, so I brought a friend to be ranty with today. I've got my mighty pal, Jennifer Burke here from Mighty Marketing Mojo. And we're going to talk email, and who knows what else, but we're definitely going to start with the email because that's what we're both a little ranty about. Right. Thanks, Jennifer. Thank you, Val. Yeah, both of us. It's, it's the quickest soapbox, you can probably get me up onto is, is email I was taught, you know, once I was taught the powers of email marketing, I want to bring everybody in with me. Yeah. And talk about it. And then there are certain parts about email marketing for businesses of all types that then get both of us a little love boxy and ranty. And that's okay. Well, it's taught me to Boulder and to just say my piece. Yeah, and especially when we're only talking truth. I mean, it's like, we've witnessed this, we've done so much of the stupid bullshit. And it's like, okay, this is why we are sorry that we did it get on board with some things previously, which I know I was just telling you some of the stuff about cleaning my list. And for everybody, if you're on my list, you already know that I've been like in an obsessed, obsessed mode of cleaning my list. And it's gorgeous and beautiful that I love. 2:26 And that's how we started going down the rabbit trail. 2:29 Because both of us are talking that there are definite mindset is yes. Around. Like, why did it take me so long? Yeah, in place, the tech bits to make this happen. And it's like, I know, Val, and I've had this conversation, it's like, and so she got ahead of me and started, you know, dusting and mopping out the corners to sparkle her list up. But for each of us, there were these just stuck in our head about we'll do it this way. Are you going to do this way or you know, perfectionism, or what? But what happens if bla bla bla bla bla bla bla? Yeah, well, and one of the biggest ones for me was that I was in such list building mode. I was numbers, numbers, numbers, numbers, because I wanted to be in certain giveaways in certain events, and you had to have a list of 5000. So I would just like go into everything. And 3:23 what good is there to have 5000. So I don't right now, I never did hit the 5000. But that was my goal is 5000. And I would have had 5000 people on there that I'm paying for that aren't doing anything. Right. Here's a great don't even like me, a great quote Nazi at the top of some of my notes that say, numbers don't matter. Results do it is truly not about list size. And I also like to talk community not list but you know, we're talking techy bits here. So we mean, we mean list. Yeah. But we all get focused in our heads because of, you know, being in the in crowd or being in this event or that event or podcast or, or partnerships or JV things and they put your value at your list size. And I'm like, wait a minute, this is like telling me my value as a human is tied to you know what size my waist sizes? Yeah. And so we go after those numbers, like Val said, both of us have chased after events. And it wasn't the right fit. It's about quality, not quantity, folks. And very few people like to feel like want to be honest with that truth. 4:28 None of those numbers are ever going to be your truly most active readers, your loyal clickers the people who are buying the ones who are truly your ideal people. And if you just have this massive, massive amount, well, I guess you're gonna finally win the numbers game, but you're gonna have a whole lot of people you're carrying around and that you're paying for 4:50 that aren't your people. Why why why are we why have we bought into that? Yeah, yeah, well in and I know it's it's kind of like you said it's a status 5:00 Simple, it's okay, the events that are bigger, they do tend to start at 5000. And, but it doesn't take into consideration the quality of their list I could build, I could have easily hit the 5000 mark absolutely could have hit the 5000. Mark. But having gone through my list, so in depth, I mean pulling every contact up, I've gone through I think at this point, I've gone to 1400 contacts, and I've clicked on every single one of them, except for people like you because I know 5:33 that clicking on my obvious people that I know are reading my emails, or if they aren't, I don't want to know, okay, 5:40 that doesn't want to know that I don't read every email. This is exactly Yeah, cuz we talked to, but I'm looking at it. And, and I can, there's two events that I was in that were giant list builders. And those are the two events that I clicked almost every single one of them into my reengagement series immediately. Because in the last two years, they probably haven't opened anything, you know, and it's like, what good was that? Exactly what good is it? You know, and it's not helping the people either, because happens from the techie side of things as we send emails out, and we put our hearts and souls in like Val, Val does. I know that she's she's a bigger truth teller, and 6:21 even then, Ben, I am. And there are people out there who have to enter elicit somebody who wants that. But they're not getting it, because there's too many other people who weren't the right fit. And so they're ignoring they haven't bothered unsubscribing. But they're just trashing the emails. Well, folks that help something called deliverability. It's telling Google and Yahoo, and Outlook, that maybe you're an iffy, kind of content person, and people aren't paying attention to you. So all of a sudden, those providers start putting you in promos, and maybe not into spam, but they're definitely not necessarily, you know, they might all because and this is we're talking about the inbox of somebody who actually wants to hear from you. Yeah, they're missing your message. And they're missing the ways that you can help them. Because of the I wish I could figure out what already said is dead weight. We're carrying people who were maybe excited about that thing in that bundle, maybe they're just excited, and they click everything in the bundle, because they don't know what they need. They don't know what they want. They've got FOMO. So they grab all of it. 7:31 And then let's face it, life happens. And they don't have the time to go back and sort out what they really wanted to keep. Yeah. So you know, delete, and deliverability was definitely a big reason why I def I wanted to jump into it and clean it. Well. Besides the money, money aspect, I really didn't. I really don't want to pay $600 A couple of weeks extra for those people that aren't opening, but deliverability I mean, yes, deliverability. And that's the one I'm kicking myself over the most because I know from having been in events and giveaways where that seemed like real, honestly, they were really good fits, I've skipped out on a lot of opportunities, because I'm pretty sure it's not necessarily a great fit, or I'm not paying to be in an event that might not be a good fit, you know, but I'm looking at my numbers going all I know, my opens are down and it's not just let's face it, folks, if you ever want to watch one of my videos, where I can explain you to the techie side of like, what's an open and what actually counts as an open and it's probably not what you think it is. And it's a really wrapped measurement, honestly, of engagement for for email, and things that providers and stuff like Apple have done that make it even harder to tell what's actually going on. But we get stuck in our heads and we're looking at that number. It's kind of a proxy because it is showing how are we doing? Are we getting into people's inboxes and I know my number has been not where I want it to be. Yeah. And then why haven't I done anything about it till now I know how to do this and to fix this. So why didn't die? Yeah, yeah. And like we're both looking at dollar signs that yeah, that was my push was the dollar signs but there there is one reason why I am a little bit glad and that's just because what was it a year ago because so both of Jennifer and I both use active campaign right now and I know is the key term. Exactly. Yeah. I know quite a few people might be might be moving on soon but one of the things was didn't Active Campaign only bring in the Apple Apple like a year ago that will how they treated the apple for those who don't know this is a Apple's basically saying, hey, looks like everybody's opening every single email. You're like, no different email marketing services have treated apples change on on passing through metrics, like open rates differently. Active Campaign had basically taken all of those numbers out of the mix. Yeah. 10:00 They weren't counting anything from Apple, they didn't say think that, you know, which meant all of a sudden, you know, your open rates. Now they say, Yeah, they just dove to the ground. Whereas I was seeing and hearing conversations from people and flow desk or ConvertKit, or mailer light, who were like, Wait, my open rates are super high. And so every email software is marketing software is kind of been handling this whole issue differently, they still are active campaign now let you basically sort of see, here's what we think are your apple open rates, here's what we think your overall open rate is, and hey, by the way, take this all with a grain of salt. What this means from a technical point is like what Val and I are doing in terms of spring cleaning, for our email communities to make sure that people get our messages is we maybe have to implement some different things than what I used to work, say, five years ago, or even three years ago, and it's gonna be a little messy. And for each of us who like had that number in our head, where we're, like, must build lists must build lists must get more people on this notion that I'm going to possibly be the cleaning people out who actually are opening my emails, because I just don't know, right? It's one of those, I think it's one of those things, it's holding a lot of us back and we're gonna have to go, oh, gosh, I hope not cross my fingers. And if you really love me, we'll come back, though, right? People will come back, if they're meant to be there. And they're meant to be buyers, and they're meant to be true community members, they will find you again, and they will come back as a probably on social media with you somewhere, or in your group somewhere at the same time. I know. So that was one reason why. Yeah, I was. That was one reason why I was glad that I didn't do it. Previously, as trying to find a positive to all of this sets, I obviously spent an extra $600 last year that no need to 11:54 try to dig for a positive. But the other thing for definitely, for all of my emails, I'm really working on having something clickable in there. Absolutely. So, you know, speaking, it's maybe Great timing on this, because it's all about when we got started that I literally finally put in place, she's doing more of this cleanup manually, I put in place an automation series that's going through? Well, it's going to start going through and checking for if you've taken a half a dozen different actions, that could any of which besides opening and clicking and visiting my website, and doing you know other things that that clicking any link in any email, not just the things that we're tracking on a on an individual broadcast email, and it's going to say, Okay, if you did any of those things, then we're going to we're gonna set this tag, and it's going to tell the system that you're engaged, and then it's going to wait and see if you keep doing those things. If so, while those are most awesome people, and they get the VIP status, and let's make sure we email them more. And if the system doesn't see any of that stuff happening, well, then they're gonna get those emails ago, Hey, are you still with me? Do we not fit anymore? Or you're gonna give them that free goodie, you're gonna give them an extra coupon, you're going to do something. But the point is, for me, 13:12 I should have done this months ago, it's going to take time for the automation to run ads to see what people are doing. I think value said that you're you're manually clicking and going through, I have I have, I assume what you put in place, I grabbed the recipes from Active Campaign, there's, you know, engaged one engaged to or something like that. And then there was an email sequence that I set up, and then completely tweaked. They had it set up so basic, so I'm definitely gonna do a video for that one, you guys. So that's gonna go into my Active Campaign workshop. But I couldn't wait. Like all the sudden, I just got 100% obsessed with what is my listing. And then the more I was clicking on everybody, I was just I was, there was zero negative to me, once I started going through all of my people, and seeing who's opening who's not opening where they were coming from. I mean, I thought that I would be like, depressed about getting rid of all these people. And I wasn't at all because I was finding all of these people that have been opening my emails that I've never had any contact with. And to me now I'm going those are people that now I feel like I want to go into Active Campaign and I want to go and send them a solo mail. Like, hey, I have noticed that you've done this, this, this and this, can we have another conversation? Or hey, I appreciate you you get here with me. Yeah, well, one on one and not even like a mass email like like this is a one on one conversation is where I'm feeling like going through that. So I was excited about doing that. But that's why I started putting people in my reengagement right away. It was just like, all right, out, out now now's by 14:55 the bold one. So she's gonna take action immediately and we're all gonna learn in it. 15:00 for them methodically figured this out. And you know, it's funny, I couldn't wait for it. That was my problem. 15:06 Seven days and I went, 15:09 I couldn't wait any longer because like, Val, I know. And I've circled the date on my calendar. Yeah. When my email subscription is said to renew, and I'm actually looking at all of this going, I think I'm about to take it and go month to month, rather than saving the money to go annually, because I'm not sure I'm committed to Active Campaign in the long haul. And that pains me to say it, right. But right now, I'm committed long enough to work through the Can we get a more targeted and engaged list? Because if I'm going to move people, while I'm going to move the ones who want to stick with me, right? And because honestly, it's it's not, it's not a numbers game, I'll say it again, the right people matter more than having lots of PCs. And it matters more if those people start to know, like, and trust us, which gets to the other part of our conversation, which is, you got to write the damn emails, yes, send them to them so that they can know you like you trust you and then buy from you. 16:10 But it's hard for all of those things that happened together, if your emails are going off into the ether, because we aren't targeted yet. You know, and so we each have different paths where we're going to get there and similar motivations. And part of me is, you know, a lot of other stuffs been going on. So for me, the one consistent is I just keep emailing. I keep emailing. I keep writing. And I know some of them are going off into the ether. And I'm trying not to think too much about the pain of that. Yeah. Because for me, I'm like, if I that was what was getting stuck in my head, I'm like, Oh, I can't send an email out. If I wanted to have clicks. And I want to track the clicks in the engagement. So I have to go set this thing up. And I'm like, I don't have time to set this thing up. Oh, right. Yeah. So one thing, God as painful as you think Valmeyer both here to say, like what was on our minds that we thought this was going to be 17:03 so bad, so hard. So right now, what it does come to the fact of just the same thing of I mean, social media and anything are stupid human brains, anything negative, we're grabbing, we grab a hold of anything negative, and we're like, oh, my god, stop, we got to instead of looking at the fact that if we scale our list down, if we have a list of 5000, and we're getting an 11%, open rate, 17:30 versus having a list of 1000. With gosh, I know some people that have smaller lists, I don't know their list numbers for sure that their open rates are like 60%. Yeah. Because it's down to people that they love getting 40%, you know, for yes. And I'm like, Oh, my God, it's been years since I saw a 40%. Open Rate. And that should be a warning bell. Yeah. And again, part of that is like, Okay, how is your bell system measuring opens, but still look at your own trends over time? And if your trends in your software have been going down? Well, you know, we should probably do something about it. Yeah, again, stupid human brains. And so that's the negativity and my stupid human brain goes to, you have to get it right. Like what fudged up? You know, the automation? What if it's, what if it's not working? Right? What if all of a sudden, everybody on my list goes away? What if everybody starts getting tons of emails all at once? I'm like, okay, stop with the as Why have reminders on my desktop that you know, Done is better than perfect. take imperfect action? Well, and working through the what ifs? What if your entire list all of a sudden just got wiped out? What if? What if it could happen? What if it did happen? And we were being dumb and didn't have a backup? Which I hope it goes with that? Yes, it goes. Part of your thing, everyone when you're doing your stats at the beginning of the year, also do your backup at the same time of your leg? Work? Yeah, but but it is one of the things that just start working through the stupid what ifs, and it's like, Okay, what's the worst that would happen? The worst that would happen is I'd have to build a list. again from scratch. Well, what's gonna happen with that? That's gonna be the most targeted fucking email this I've ever created in my life. If I build it from zero, I'm that's not a negative, right? Oh, and I'm also going to bet that started from scratch. More than once valid, said more than one business. I know this. Yeah. You started from scratch more than once. I've burned my email list to the ground. I mean, I won't. Okay. It didn't burn anybody. But you know, I wiped it. Yeah. One of the things I did when I moved to Active Campaign more than four years ago is I started over Yeah, with I think 47 or 67 people. That list right. And so we each we know how to grow. We haven't and yes, collaborations, and other people's audiences are the fastest way to grow. Let's face it. If all you're doing is sticking 20:00 Your opt in or you're getting my new get my newsletter on the homepage of your website. truth telling time here have nothing gonna happen. Nope, not unless you've got a boat load of traffic coming to your website. And it's just amazing. We love you and want emails from you. And yep, that's just wasn't happening. Yeah, they had to have fallen instantly in love with you to put the email in there. Right. But yes, we know and we can talk about ways to build. And I haven't been necessarily actively building in a few months. And maybe that's because in my head, I'm like, Well, why? Why just go grabbing numbers when you know that it isn't, you know, is it isn't targeted as you want, I'd rather talk to more of the people that I'm pretty sure are the right fit for me. And we're going to open things. And I'm going to say one other point that I think val is brilliant at is being valid in her emails. And that's part of the whole, don't just build a list. Go write the damn emails. Yes, I once did a challenge on this for 30 days, and we're waiting for the other one. And we're waiting for 2020 threes versus waiting for me to do it again. 21:11 I'm still waiting to restart 2023. 21:16 You know, it's to be you. It's like we're all think we have to be somebody else in our social media, in our videos in our emails, and no, yes, be you. I'm pretty sure Well, you've seen more engagement, the more you lean into being you which is that 150% 200% 1000s percent, yes. The more authentic I get in my emails, the more replies I get to my emails, which I love replies to my emails, if you're on my list. If I asked you a question, I want the answer to the question. 21:50 That's why I asked it. 21:53 Absolutely. I'll also tell you, I love I'll get reply sometimes. And because I know there are certain people who do read every email that I send, and they will notice little things. And they'll reply back. They're like, checking in on this. The other one is that occasionally from time to time, I'll throw absolutely wild stuff in the PS. Yeah. Because I know there are people who skim to the PS Yeah. And sometimes it's a reiteration of an offer. But other times, it's like, PS, there is no PS today. Why are you still doubting? 22:22 You know, or did that with my other site? Yeah, I would joke, it's might be, I might rip roll you, you know, and I will reply. And I know they read because they're there. Yeah, I was like, Are you paying attention? 22:40 And it's like, I was worried about trying to be this this super professional, perfect version of me and my business. I wouldn't do that. And then I wouldn't be having any fun. Yeah. And I don't I, you know, I'll finish it. We're not gonna go do this every day. And we aren't enjoying it now. Yeah, there's yeah, there's nothing to get me on the computer if I'm not going to have fun. And if I and and it was, it's obvious, because there's been I mean, we've talked about a million times, how many times have I tried to be who I thought everybody else wanted me to be? And then I don't do anything. I just circle. I go binge watch NetFlix, I go do anything else? Because I'm like, Well, I don't, I don't know how to be that person, obviously, because it's not me. 23:31 That's why does that bow full? 23:35 Right. 23:37 To get the full vowel. 23:39 I know one thing also talking about writing the damn emails, one thing, setting up the new engagement series, I have to send my emails, I have no choice. But to send multiple emails out in a week. Because I have a seven day cycle. If I don't email on that seven day cycle, then I'm instantly putting them into that cycle of they're going to have to be dropped. And that was also like a little buck kicker. For me. It's like, oh, okay, there are weeks. It doesn't happen very often. But there are weeks that I just get black. 24:13 And maybe I haven't sent something out. And now I can't do that at all period. Which is, which is interesting. And it's one reason so for example, I set the initial wait time for most recently active to 14 days. Yeah. Because I know I email every Thursday. Yeah, that's the commitment I made to myself that even when I couldn't tight because I broke my frickin arm. I still send emails out. And I generally also email on Mondays or Tuesdays and I'm trying to, you know, email more often than that it's a bit but I wanted to make sure there was enough time in there that they had gotten at least a couple of emails Absolutely. To engage with before it decided, well, maybe they're not recently active, but they're still engaged. Yep. And because honestly, unlike belt 25:00 I can't commit to daily I've never wanted to commit to daily. Yeah, Val has so many things to say she's apparently not going to have a problem with this. But that's how, and you don't have to be other vowel. You don't have to be me. But you need to be you and you need to commit to just bringing you to your emails consistently. Yes, consistently means for you. But Val's bringing up the point that if her welcomes if she's going to email frequently, well, then her welcome series, or her reengagement series is going to set that expectation. You know, I don't email as frequently. So my welcome and my reengagement series won't be quite as tight and confined. Yeah, it's trying to match expectations. Like I've told people, when I've coached them through the welcome series of writing, don't have this welcome series that goes out and five emails in five days. If you know, because of your life, you can only email once every two weeks. Yeah, that's setting everybody up for disappointment and disengagement and mismatches with those people who could be your ideal people. Yeah. I think the other thing that Val is great at, you know, on the whole write your damn emails is that there seems to be people who are in the camp of, Oh, my God, selling and making offers in my emails feels like I'm a sleazy, used car salesman, or they're like, Oh, my God, I have to have an offer in every email. Otherwise, they'll forget what I do. And they'll forget, you know, and I have to have something, something somebody's offer somewhere in every email. And I'm like, Okay, nice. Those are both extremes. Yeah. You don't have to be at the extreme of the 26:34 valley. I mean, how often do you make, say, How often do you make offers? You know, and an offer in this case could be, you know, go do something, but it could be, there's always a call to action. There's always a call to action, even if it's just answered the question, just hit reply and answer the question. There's always in for me now, I said it in my template, if I don't have something? My podcast is always in the PS. Absolutely. And that was the easiest thing. Like I didn't know I don't even have to think about it. It's like, there's always the PS down there. But I always have a call to action in there. And I've been selling a lot more than ever before. And guess what, people? When Yes, sell more in your emails, you make more from your emails, it's really weird. 27:22 Shit, if they don't know about it, that's so weird. 27:27 I fell in are joking. Like, you know, if they people can't buy if they don't know it exists, which, okay, I've been a little under the radar for lots of reasons the last few months. And I haven't had a new course or a new workshop or training, but I'm working on too. And I've been woeful at telling the rest of my community about my membership that's been running for a year. Now. By the way, if you need techie help, you should be 27:53 there. It's a safe space, there is no such thing as a silly question. But have I been? I it's in the emails, but it's not in the emails as often as it could or should, right. However, I do still send links when I've got an offer for somebody that I'm an affiliate for. If somebody else is running a course I'm like, wow, I wish I'd created that course. That's awesome. I'm so glad Cindy created it. Please go joins go. Yeah, good. Why would we recreate something that we already know somebody we love? And respect has it? Yeah. And there were definitely months in the last of the year. And there were months when I wasn't teaching and training live. I was doing, you know, rehab and physical therapy where that month's income was was my membership. And affiliates. Yeah, you know, I haven't done a lot of one on one client work and that's okay. You know, there's there's other ways to do this. And if specially now, I'll also say this, I don't cram multiply rarely cram up, you know, cram, hmm, I rarely even put more than one link to an affiliate in a given email. And I do see some people doing that where they're like, I'm like, it's a laundry list. I'm like, What am I supposed to be paying attention to here? I don't want to call out names, because some of these are people that I respect highly. But think about it, your audience can get confused. That if I tell you with all truth and honesty and love that, hey, this is the course I would have created if I was doing it this way. Go take so and so's course, or you know what, so and so has a workbook that is absolutely killer. You go get the app. Yeah, you want to write emails better and more often. I know whose membership you should be in. Yeah. And it's super cheap. You know, it's better even than when I run the write your DM emails challenge, right? That said, Yes, you can make those offers too. You can point people to your blog, you can point people to your podcast, to your videos, to your social media back and back and forth. Yeah, give them that action that helps them somehow. And I know there was a time where there was a mindset block for me about doing that to some people because 30:00 As I was thinking of them as the fact that our businesses are so similar, that my brain was going well, I can't send traffic their way. Well, nobody's business is similar. Nobody is training or teaching or doing anything the same, not a single one of us. So if, if I can make money off of those people, that wouldn't be a good fit for me anyways, then why the hell not? Transcribed by https://otter.ai