Val 0:06 Hey, it's time to crank up the truth! I'm Val Selby. And over the decades of working online, I've learned a most important lesson. Mindset owns your business. It procrastination, imposter syndrome and a lack of focus have been blocking your biz. And I'm here with powerful volume ready to help you see choices that you're making. Get ready to own your personality, and use your expertise to create the business of your dreams. Now is the time to make changes and live your best life. So let's get to it! Val 0:43 Hey, everyone, I am so happy that you are here again today. And as you've noticed, I've been bringing in more guests. And same for today. I love bringing in experts and new ideas and other ideas because I'm going to admit I don't know everything about everything. And I love getting the tips as well from these experts. So today, I have Kendra Swalls here. And we're going to go into a marketing conversation. She owns Girls Means Business. And thank you for being here, Kendra. Kendra 1:17 Thank you so much for having me. I am so excited to be here. Val 1:21 Happy to have you and have this conversation. Because I mean, there's never a time when I don't need more tips. Kendra 1:30 Give me all the tips. I love it. Val 1:31 Right. Let me pick and choose. So Kendra, if you could just tell the listeners a little bit about yourself, please. Kendra 1:38 Absolutely. Yeah, so I'm a former elementary school teacher, that was my original plan in life never thought I'd be an entrepreneur ever. It was not something I was even like on my radar. And then when I back in 2012, I was teaching full time getting my master's degree because I didn't really I was feeling very unsettled in my career. I didn't really know what it was that I was looking for, or what direction I really wanted to go. So I was like, Okay, I'm gonna go get my master's, I'm going to kind of maybe move out of the classroom and into more of a leadership role. So I was doing that I was pregnant with my first daughter, and my husband, I were on the process of like, trying to decide if we wanted to move, there's a lot of things happening. And I decided to like, throw one more thing in I was like, I'm gonna start a photography business. I can, I mean, I can remember the dinner, the conversation, we were out to dinner and I told my husband, I was like, I think I wanna try this. And he was, Oh, okay. And I don't think he really took me seriously. But then like, he was the one who bought me the camera the year before. And I've kind of been dabbling in it. I've always loved photography, it's been something, it's just kind of like a creative outlet. So I started my photography business over the next five years, had my daughter, we moved, I changed career positions a couple times had my second daughter. And then in that same time, I was slowly growing my business. And what I found that I really, really loved about my photography business was, I guess, the mathematical side of it, which sounds really nerdy. And I'm not typically that person, but I loved like figuring out the puzzle pieces of, okay, if I market myself this way, what result do I get? Or if I try this strategy, what results do I get? That was super exciting to me. And so I really fell in love with branding and marketing and social media and all the things. So in 2017, when I left my teaching career to run my business full time, I had a ton of other photographers out of this community that I was a part of, and I kind of had created. And they all came to me asking questions. I started sort of doing one off coaching sessions and little workshops, or I would put blog posts out even though I realized I hated blogging, and I was repeating the same things over and over again. And so I was someone told me one time that you should start a podcast because I can talk to which is most of us who podcast. Yes. Talk to walls. Val 4:05 Family sanity, Kendra 4:07 exactly. So in 2019, I kind of combined my love of business and marketing with my natural teaching ability. And I started the girl means business brands and the podcast. And it's just kind of grown from there. And it's like the perfect marriage of the two strengths. I feel like I have. I mean, hopefully I have other ones besides those. But those are the two main ones, you know. And it's been this really kind of rollercoaster journey that's been really fun and exciting. And I get to help other female business owners find their passions and create freedom, financial time, freedom, all the things so that they can enjoy life as much as I get to. Val 4:45 And like you said, combining your favorite things because I mean, you're still a Kendra 4:49 teacher. Yeah, just in a completely different capacity. Right? Val 4:53 Just something that I mean, we couldn't even understand back then. How we would be doing any of this Yeah, that's amazing. And I'm looking at your bio right now. And survival mode to success mode. Yes. I think that that was a huge change for me of doing that and survival mode, otherwise known as desperation. Kendra 5:16 Yeah, that's trying to keep your head above water. Yes. Val 5:19 And then trying to get out of that mode. Because then of course, I know from when I was doing it, everything that I was putting out there just screamed desperate. I mean, that's just not great. Which is where you're coming in and telling people Okay, let's go purposely into things. Yeah. Kendra 5:38 I always think about, have you seen that movie Forgetting Sarah Marshall? While Okay, well, there's a scene that always sticks out in my head. Because I have this phrase, I want to be able to, like, do less. And there's the scene and Forgetting Sarah Marshall were the main guys. I can't think of his name, Jason, somebody anyway, he has a deal at the same resort with his ex girlfriend. And he's like, I'm just gonna go do me. And he goes, and he decides to take surf lessons from this other character who was played by Paul Rudd. And so Paul Wright is trying to explain to him like how to surf. And he's like, you just got to do less, you just got to do you're doing too much do less. Yeah. And that's kind of become like, My motto is like, there are 5 million things you could be doing in your business. But when you spread yourself so thin, that's when you start to like really have that survival mode, panic feeling of like, I can't be doing 500 things at one time and do them all well. And so I've just doggy paddling as hard as I can, and never feeling like I'm making progress. So when you when you start to like pull away and get rid of the things that are just like dead weight, or that are not really helping move you forward, you're able to finally kind of like breathe better, and like actually make headway in the direction you're trying to go. And that's been like, I'm a very visual person. So in my head, I'm picturing all the things I'm saying out loud right now. And I'm like, That's the feeling I've had in my business where I've been able to shed all the things that are not serving me, and I feel lighter, and I'm faster. And I'm able to really like move the needle forward, move the ship ahead and go in the direction I know that I'm supposed to be going in. And so it takes getting rid of all that dead weight first, though Val 7:14 it does. And that's a hard change. Because I mean, I know me being online for ever in a day you just been taught, well, you need to do this, you need to do that. And he did that by all of the experts, because they're experts in that topic, right? And then you feel like you're supposed to and then you're like, I don't want to do any of this anymore. Just quit. Right? Exactly. Yeah, it leads to the burnout and the and then none of this is fun. I lost my creativity. Why am I doing this? And you lose focus. You Kendra 7:45 forget, like what your original goal was, you're like, Oh, I've gotten so far off the path of where I was thought I was supposed to be going and you're like, wait a minute, which direction am I even going? I call it shiny thing syndrome. Because it's so easy to like, go on to Facebook or Instagram or whatever platform you're on. And or go to a conference even oh my gosh, the conferences are even like worse sometimes, like a firehose of people telling you all these different strategies and ideas. But the idea of shiny things is that you go on there, and there's all these people kind of like, you know, waving banners at you and waving flyers going try this and buy into this program. And you need to be doing this and you need to be marketing this way. And you're just kind of like, oh, well, maybe I shouldn't be trying all these things. And it's really easy to like end up on this way different path than what you thought you were supposed to be on. And then you feel frustrated because nothing's working. When really like if you had just stuck to the things that were working in the beginning and just kept going forward, ignoring all the shiny things, you would have been a lot further along than you are now. Val 8:43 I hope everybody was just listening to that. I like that. And the less is more. And my friends that are Instagram people. They already know this they shocking gas. So I do love the fact that you are an Instagram lady, because I am not. That was one of the things that I gave up. I quit trying to force it. So having you here to talk about it is perfect because I know it works for so many people when it's their Kendra 9:14 thing. And that's the thing is like it's not for everybody and that's totally fine. Like I can come on here and I can give you all of the tips and things that have worked for me on Instagram. But if it is not something that you are enjoying or not something that feels like it's a good fit for you and your business then it doesn't need to be something you're focusing on at all. Val 9:33 I know for me one of the main things was I was just never on Instagram. Yeah, it's not my go to for like checking in or any of that so I know that that's a big problem right there. But what kind of tips do you have for all of those people in my community? Instagram is their go to they're not getting that information from me that's for danger. Well, I guess technically you are because I just brought you Kendra. So Kendra 9:57 you bring in the people you're just connect After I like it, oh, my gosh, well, okay, because I won't say Val 10:04 that it doesn't work. It's just, it's not for me at this time. Kendra 10:07 Yeah, well, like one of my closest friends, she swears by LinkedIn. And she's on LinkedIn all the time. And I'm like, I that's not somewhere. I don't even know my LinkedIn logins, right? It's not somewhere that I don't think my audience is there. And that's okay. So with Instagram, I'll kind of give just like a quick couple of hot tips here. First of all, I would say, if it's a place, like you said, like you need to make sure it's a place you are actually consuming. And that you're willing to go in and take the time to learn the platform. Because you can't just like if I'll use the LinkedIn, I can't just walk into LinkedIn and be like, I don't know what to do here when I haven't spent the time understanding the platform. So for me, the biggest thing with Instagram is there's all these little these different features, and I call them like neighborhoods. And so you have things like the stories like your Instagram Stories is a neighborhood, it has its own kind of purpose, and it has its own viewers, people who come there, they immediately go to watch the stories. And then you have like your feed is a different neighborhood. And then like reels in short form, video is a different neighborhood. And then live videos are different neighborhood. And so you have all these different places. And there's some people who have like subscriptions and all that kind of stuff, those are different to each neighborhood serves a different purpose. So if you are creating content for Instagram, you need to understand the purpose that each neighborhood serves and know what type of content to put into each neighborhood. So quickly, I'll say like, I don't do a ton of lives. So I'm not going to really cover a whole lot of lives there. But essentially lives obviously, just what they say they're just live video, you hop on, you have a conversation, you bring somebody else on, it makes like immediate connections kind of builds trust stories, for example, stories are meant to build connections with the audience you already have. So you're not going to post your stories with the intention of growing your following. That's not what the stories neighborhood is designed for. So I think of stories is like, if I were looking at like a map of a neighborhood, it would be like, you know, a square block, with no, no entrance point, or your coldest sack. Yes, it's like a cold is that's perfect. It's a cul de sac, it's like, once you're in there, you're gonna have parties in the cul de sac, but you're not necessarily doing it so that people driving by, like, if my kids were to set up a lemonade stand in a cul de sac, it's gonna be pretty pointless, because you're not gonna get new customers, right. But if you're setting up a limited, you know, if you're in there just to be like, I'm just serving the people around me, I'm not looking to build new customers or new followers, then that's the story is does. And it's meant to be behind the scenes and get to know you. And that's where they build that trust factor of, you're not just this static thing that you they see in your feed, or you're not just the perfect photo that's in your profile image, you're a living person, you stumble over your words, and you show up with no makeup and all the things. So that's stories, your feed content. And this is up to date, as of time of this recording, it can all change tomorrow, right? I always have to give that little like caveat, like this is all currently how this works. So your feed content that's like your static images, your carousel posts, which are the ones where you they swipe through the multiple images or multiple slides, it can also be video content. And a lot of times they're now putting even long form video as a real, but your feed to me that is where you are creating either a portfolio of what you do, or you're educating. So as a photographer, like I'll use my two separate accounts as a photographer, I use my feed as a portfolio. When someone comes to my feed, they're going to kind of see my images, they're gonna see content around what I do and what I can offer to them. How can I serve you as my followers, my audience, on my girl means business page, it's sharing tips and ideas and content pieces and things like that, that are going to serve my audience again. And the goal there is you're kind of giving them like the little carrot, you're dangling that carrot, and going hey, if you think this is good, wait to see what happens when you come and work with me or purchase from me. And so you're not giving everything away, you're just kind of giving them the idea of here is why you need me, here's what I can do for you. And here's like a little quick win now and then and then your reels their short form video, and my opinion now this is just again, that little abstract. This is my version of this that neighborhood to me is for entertainment value. It is to draw people in to who you are and what your brand is. I have found that the most success that I've had with reels has come from being able to kind of say like, very quickly like this is the personality you're gonna get when you come into my world. This is a little not even, like humorous, necessarily, but more like, I can share tips I can share like little you know, hey, here's a quick win thing. But what I have discovered with reels is that the shorter, the more entertaining and the faster they can consume it, the better. And that's what's gonna help drive more people. It's more like brand awareness. It's that neighborhood where you're like out on the busy street with your sign going come this way for the carwash. That's, that's what reels are. And so those to me are like the neighborhoods where if you're creating content on your stories that should really go on to your reels because you're trying to attract new people, then you're not going to get the results that you really want. So understanding the different content that goes into each neighborhood, I think is really, really helpful. And it helps you to set the right expectations of what you're going to get in return from your audience. Yeah, Val 15:38 I think that that was easily. Like the one I could most Yeah, visualize. It's like, oh, okay, cuz I've seen I mean, like you said, the reels, you know, I'm seeing those as the new YouTube shorts that my husband is constantly sending me right. Now, but it is, it's making me aware of whatever the latest one is that I have to call and subscribe to, because they keep putting the quick little reels out, or the quick little shorts out. So I love that description of everything. Can 100% relate to it? Kendra 16:19 That's okay. That's shorts, I can't tell you that. Like, I don't know that I've ever watched YouTube shorts. Because that's not where my brain goes, When I open my phone to like consume something, I go straight to Instagram. And I think it's a lot of it too, is just platform you're comfortable with. And I can like I said, and your audience, you need to have a platform of where your audiences to, you know, my audience are primarily moms who don't have a ton of time. And so like YouTube, where it's, I mean, they have the YouTube shorts now, but YouTube is generally long form content, and my audience does not consume long form content. It's why I've even shortened my podcast episodes to 20 minutes or less. Because in my downloads have gone up because people are like, yes, give us like the short, easy to consume pieces. And to me, Instagram is short, easy, fast consumable stuff. Whereas like Facebook is me. It's okay. It has a little bit of both. But to me, YouTube is not quick and easy, consumable. Val 17:19 No, I agree. And my brains kind of going through, okay, how can I do this neighborhood's idea for because I am more Facebook, for that, like, how can I associate what you just said, for Instagram? Over there? I mean, all of the platforms are doing similar things. So yeah, I'll be really listening to this and mapping that I think in my own head of, Okay, where is all of this, to do what I want it to do, which is the main thing about social media, right? It's, it's there for us to use as Kendra 17:52 a tool. But we had, like I said, you have to manage expectations, too. You know, I think there's a lot of people who go into social media, and I saw this a ton on Instagram, especially when rails first came out. And you had these people who were just jumping on the bandwagon, and they were seeing this insane growth of like, 10s of 1000s of followers in a month, or, you know, 100,000 followers in six weeks or something crazy, because they were jumping on this thing that was new. And so then they were the the people that you saw all the time, because they were everywhere. And I think of this one girl in particular, she's from Australia, and she created a whole course. And like her entire platform on Instagram was about Instagram reels. And she just like, I mean, blew up and was everywhere, like, I couldn't scroll more than 10 scrolls on a reel and not see one of hers pop up. And so in my mind, I was like, Oh, this is the type of growth you're supposed to see. Why am I not seeing that, when in reality, that's like point zero 1% of the people on social media that are growing like that. And so it's the expectation of, well, I should be on this platform. And within weeks, I should have 1000s of followers, that's not realistic. And just like, if you're going into Instagram, or any platform and saying, I'm gonna post this one thing, and everybody's gonna see it, everybody's going to be excited about it, everybody's gonna click on it and buy into it or sign up for it or whatever it is you're wanting to do with it. That's not a realistic expectation, too. So I think the idea of kind of really cleaning the slate and going okay, what are some realistic expectations of our social media? Because we've spent a lot of time living in the not realistic expectations and becoming disappointed. How can we set ourselves up for success and not for failure going into this platform? Mm hmm. Val 19:40 Yep. And when I finally got in the habit a couple of years ago of, I guess it might have been over three years ago now of every month tracking all my stats that really helped me because, I mean, the main reason Instagram doesn't work is because I don't care for it. Just point blank. I'm like, Why do I keep trying to push this but Even on the months that I was really like, Okay, I'm diving in deep, I'm gonna do this because it's working for everyone. And I would track my staff to get like, five, five people back to my website. I'm like, Okay, I really did give it, say a half assed go, I'm Kendra 20:17 not gonna say that I was all in. But tracking my stats was just like, Okay, this is where I'm getting what I want this so important. And I think when I focus more on that goes back to those same expectations thing, too, is like, yeah, I have clients all the time that are like, I've tried this, and it didn't work for me. And I'm like, Okay, well, let me see the numbers. And I'm not a numbers person, like, my husband is the numbers person, I am the lead with my heart person. But I've learned to become a numbers person. Yeah. And I did the same thing. I had a Google spreadsheet that last year, at the end of every month, I would go in and put it I would track all of these key data points. And I could go back and I could see like, oh, okay, there were certain months when my you know, reach was really high, or my engagement was really high. And I could go back and really see like, what type of content was I posting that allowed the the reach to be so high? Or, you know, oh, I really grew and followers this month, even though my reach was really low, like what caused that and like, there's all these little data points, and then you can also go and say, Oh, I really am making progress. So I think that's where a lot of us get stuck is like, I think about with my photography business, it was easy for me to go back to like year two, and look at the photos I had taken because I had visual evidence of how sucky I was and versus like year eight, and you're like, oh, wow, okay, I really have made progress. It doesn't feel like it because it's going at a snail's pace. But I really have made progress. With social media. We don't always have that, because there's no I mean, unless you scroll really far back and see how like crappy your content used to be. But even then you're like, well, but you know, I don't know, maybe it was okay. So tracking those data points, and like being able to really see like, oh, wow, I really am making progress that can help you be like, Okay, this is not all for nothing, it's actually making some kind of difference here. Yes. And when you are tracking it, and you know what's working, then it's exciting to watch the numbers grow on what's working, because usually the bank account does well, and that's fine. That whole idea of last is like if I'm going on Instagram, and I'm posting, you know, five stories a day, a carousel posts and a reel every day, and the only thing that's actually moving the needle forward are my stories. That's the only thing people are really engaging with, then why would I spend all this time creating reels, when that's not doing anything for me Val 22:38 lately, because that's where the burnout and the frustration happens, is creating stuff Kendra 22:43 that knowing what dead weight you can let go of, and then we're saying like, get rid of it forever, you might come back to at some point be like, I don't know, that might be a fun thing to try now that things have kind of leveled out in this other area or taken a dip in this other area. But at the time, especially if you are and again, I work with a lot of moms who are like, I don't have time, none of us have time. It's not like you're just sort of going, Hey, with that extra five hours you have in your day, let's add in a bunch of more content you can create. Nobody is saying that right? Val 23:11 And edited and do this do that. It's like, Kendra 23:14 if you if you're able to say that call me because I knew that I have questions for you. Val 23:19 And we're writing. Kendra 23:23 You know, I tell people all the time, like, I just need you to work smarter, and others over, you know, over killed phrase of like, work smarter, not harder. But that genuinely, it makes sense. Like, I just need you to really understand what you need to focus on right now in this moment, and let everything else go. And I'm not saying again, like you can't come around to some important other point. But you have to focus on one or maybe two things at a time. And get those really working for your business. And then you can add something else in. But if you're trying to add in 10 things at one time, you're going to overwhelm yourself and you're going to be like doggy paddling the heck out of the whole thing. Val 24:00 Yep, ideal in the 90 day. Oh, yeah, 90 day concept where you have one main thing that you're working towards. And it comes with the stats, because I mean, how many times did I'm like, I'm going all in on Instagram, and I go in for a week can't get stats from that. People give up way too soon. So knowing that you're committed, and you're going to do it for three months, because I see Kendra 24:22 that only way to get some time with my clients who have come to me they're like, and I because I always lead with two things like what social platform are you want? And are you doing email marketing, and they'll always come back? Well, I've tried email marketing and just didn't work for me. And I'll say, Okay, let's look at what that means. What do you mean it didn't work for you? And they're like, Well, I sent one email. Yeah, and only my mom and two friends opened it. Okay, well, and then they gave up and I'm like, that's not really trying email marketing. That's like, looking at the email marketing stream and going I'm gonna stick like a little tiny stick in it and hope it works and then be like, Nope, didn't work, but You gotta like wade into the waters a little bit. Val 25:04 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because email marketing easily for me is the number one. Kendra 25:09 I agree. I agree. It is. Yeah. It's not the shiny, fun sexy thing. Definitely. But it's the rock solid thing that's always working in my business. Yep. See, Val 25:19 I'm a nerd in a different direction. So for me, is the break. thing for me now funny because like, Kendra 25:29 think like, oh, well, email marketing doesn't give you that instant gratification, like social media is, you know, you post something and like you, within an hour, you can see like likes and comments and all that kind of stuff. But I was like, oh, it's not as instant gratification. Well, then I started like, two or three years ago, really devoting a bunch of time to email marketing, I was like, Oh, it kind of is instant gratification. Because it's different. When I send out an email, I was just getting ready to launch something new here recently, and I sent out an email about signing up for like being part of the launch team. And I posted it on Instagram, I posted it on my stories, I posted it on my feed. And then I also sent out an email and I got such a higher response from email. I mean, it was like not even comparison, like social media, I think I had one or two people click the link. And then my email, I had like a 65% open rate and like 12% click rate or something crazy. And I was like, Oh, this is amazing. Yeah. And the change really happened for email for me was when I started telling even more stories, like just bringing me totally into it and asking questions often. So I will get much more engagement out of my email with a reply than I ever get on any of the Facebook or any of that. Now, granted, because I'm much more in my email than I am on the platforms, right, right this minute. And yeah, down the rabbit trail, I'm Val 26:49 sure because yeah, we just had a bunch of podcasts. So everyone, I'll link to those, we're talking about them because I just did the ginormous scrape of my email list, which was scary. I dumped almost 1000 people off my list. But my engagement now is so excited. And like you said, I can go into my contacts and see what people are opening. Well, there's such a, Kendra 27:11 there's a different, there's a stronger connection than you'll ever gonna get on social media. I mean, I could go into all the ways that email is better than social media, because I agree to but I also am a pretty big believer in like, they work really well in tandem together, because that's how I get people on my email list is through social media. And that goes back to my idea, that expectation that when I'm posting on social media, my expectation is not that someone's going to buy from me or work with me, or that they're even going to like message me and like ask all these questions, my expectation is, I'm going to post this content and get you on my email list. That is my ultimate goal. That's it. And then from there, I can nurture that relationship and sell to them and all the things but if I were to go on to social media and hope that every time I post, somebody bought something from me or hire tried to work with me, I'd be completely disappointed every single time. But because I've changed my expectations, it's like night and day, like I go on there now and feel way more comfortable and confident with what I'm doing. Because a I know what my expectation is in there and be I know that it's not my end all be all, I don't have all of my eggs in the social media basket, you know, I have them in my funnel system of like, get them on my email list, nurture that email list. And then you know, get them into purchasing or working with me. And it gives me a lot more freedom to play around with social media and not feel like that it has to be this like the end all be all thing. And for my business off this post doesn't do well on what am I going to do? Well, doesn't matter. I move on to the next one. And it's totally fine. Val 28:41 Yeah, I'm realizing that that's the second reason why Instagram has never worked for me is the expectations. Were not Yeah, appropriate. So everybody's attention because all social media, it's like my expectations were really well everybody's making money from it. And that shouldn't have been the expectation it should have been to bring them in closer. That's the expectation. Excellent, different mindset changes. I've already just had you guys. So hopefully you guys have as well. And especially if you're in it's into Instagram, you know, I do want to follow you and follow people. So get on there and follow both of us. And you know, I'm following I believe I'm falling kinder, I'm gonna go double check. But I love the tips. I love the the transition, the mapping that you did. So there's the visual, nice job. Can't tell your teacher if it's ingrained in me. Like Kendra 29:37 I had somebody today that was laughing at me because she was like, You do realize it every time I talk to you and she's she's not a client of mine. We're just friends like we're business besties and she's like you realize every time I talk to you like you're giving me homework assignments, I'm like, I can't help it. It's what I do. pretty well. All right. Transcribed by https://otter.ai